Possibly adopting an American Bulldog- advice? Options

[**Katie+Jim**]

A few weeks ago I moved into a new apartment. We've been looking to adopt a dog and we went to the local animal shelter just to get a feel for the process and check out what kind of dogs they typically have. We found a cute American Bulldog mix that was really sweet, but we weren't ready to adopt yet. A few days ago we decided that we are now ready to adopt, and we called the shelter to ask about the dog that we were previously interested in. They said that she was on the list to be euthanized that day due to a lack of adoption interest in her. I managed to convince them to pull her from the list for a day, and i'm going to meet her again tomorrow. If I like her again I will most likely go for it. Problem is, I know nothing about the breed. Does anyone have any experience with American Bulldogs or have any insight?

[cklein19]

I don't know much about the breed, but strongly caution you to seriously think about all the pros and cons of owning a dog since you are a renter (at least I'm assuming since you said "apartment"). If you're not a renter, disregard the rest of this post.

Finding a legitimate, affordable place to rent while owning a pet can be extremely difficult. Especially if you own one of the bully breeds, whom many apartment managers will not allow (most likely due to insurance reasons). While it's very admirable that you want to save this dog, I would just caution you to not put yourself into a difficult situation, that could result in you having to give the dog up down the road.

[Alexa]

YAY FOR YOU FOR GOING TO A SHELTER TO FIND A DOG!!! I'd wonder what the dog was mixed up with: Does she look like a more typical American Bulldog that maybe has some pit thrown in?? (I just ask b/c that is a pretty common mix in shelters. Also, if parentage is unknown, sometimes they like to call things "bulldogs" if it is actually some mixed up pit breed. A real "American Bulldog" is currently a rare breed, I believe, so if you don't get her and she is at a kill shelter, I'm wondering if a breed specific rescue might go and get her?? I know the Italian Spinone folks will take mixed spinone out of shelters when they hear of one - or at least attempt to intervene in some way.) Also, how old is she??

Anyway, I've never owned one but from folks who I have talked with at rescues and a co-worker who had one, they don't sound too different, temperamentally, than a breed I AM an expert on: The American Staffordshire Terrier (aka The World's Greatest Breed of Dog.) My AmStaff did okay in an apartment (before we moved to our current house) but did need frequent exercise (but NOT the amount of exercise your fucking herding dogs, for example, would need.) Also, they can be pushy fuckers, so you need to be The Boss but, of course, a nice and fair boss. Super loyal, friendly and confident. Putting basic training on them is relatively straight forward, again, as long as they respect you. (If they don't respect you, I am not saying they are "dangerous", they are just pushy and will try to run the show.) If you do some internet research on the breed and maybe even consider calling someone who knows the breed, I am sure you can get better info and decide if this breed is right for you.

People might mention something about a strong prey drive and warn you away if you have cats or something. I guess some people (claim to) have issues if the dog wasn't raised with cats. Well, let me tell you: My Angelo The AmStaff (aka The World's Greatest Dog) had never been around a cat in his life until he was about five or six and I brought a damn cat home. HE WAS FINE! This new stupid herding dog that I have won't leave the fucking cats alone! I guess this means each dog is an individual and I am in no way advocating turning an unknown dog of ANY breed loose with a kitty, particularly those little Jack Russell Terrorists, I'm just saying do as much research as you can in the limited time you have and then remember each dog has his/her own personality and quirks...

Historically, again, they have some shit in common with AmStaffs: Bred to work on farms in multiple capacities AND act as family dogs at the same time. (Yeah, yeah, there is that whole fighting and bear baiting shit but that is not really a quality that has been bred for BY RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS in a long fucking time...) Happy to have a job during the day and then to hang out on the couch with you at night. And did I mention loyal and loving?

[Alexa]

I don't know much about the breed, but strongly caution you to seriously think about all the pros and cons of owning a dog since you are a renter (at least I'm assuming since you said "apartment"). If you're not a renter, disregard the rest of this post.

Finding a legitimate, affordable place to rent while owning a pet can be extremely difficult. Especially if you own one of the bully breeds, whom many apartment managers will not allow (most likely due to insurance reasons). While it's very admirable that you want to save this dog, I would just caution you to not put yourself into a difficult situation, that could result in you having to give the dog up down the road.

Humph! After my GLOWING, pro-pit post, being brought back to reality by CK is a bitter pill for me to swallow: But she is right...

[cklein19]

I don't know much about the breed, but strongly caution you to seriously think about all the pros and cons of owning a dog since you are a renter (at least I'm assuming since you said "apartment"). If you're not a renter, disregard the rest of this post.

Finding a legitimate, affordable place to rent while owning a pet can be extremely difficult. Especially if you own one of the bully breeds, whom many apartment managers will not allow (most likely due to insurance reasons). While it's very admirable that you want to save this dog, I would just caution you to not put yourself into a difficult situation, that could result in you having to give the dog up down the road.

Humph! After my GLOWING, pro-pit post, being brought back to reality by CK is a bitter pill for me to swallow: But she is right...

I for one appreciate your GLOWING pit post! We'll be adding another canine into the CK household this summer, and rest assured it will be a pound puppy. The majority of pups at the pound around here are pit mixes, so I'm happy to hear some perspective on the breed (whom, btw, I have heard nothing but good things about them from owners).

[kates93]

I don't know much about the breed, but strongly caution you to seriously think about all the pros and cons of owning a dog since you are a renter (at least I'm assuming since you said "apartment"). If you're not a renter, disregard the rest of this post.

Finding a legitimate, affordable place to rent while owning a pet can be extremely difficult. Especially if you own one of the bully breeds, whom many apartment managers will not allow (most likely due to insurance reasons). While it's very admirable that you want to save this dog, I would just caution you to not put yourself into a difficult situation, that could result in you having to give the dog up down the road.

Humph! After my GLOWING, pro-pit post, being brought back to reality by CK is a bitter pill for me to swallow: But she is right...

Definitely right, but I do think it can also definitely be done - it just comes down (like most things in life) to being committed, and maybe starting your search a little earlier. I rented two houses with my Doberman (one while she was still a puppy, too - that LL was far too lenient), and Dobes are usually on the "Dangerous Dog" list. It just meant looking ONLY at pet-friendly housing (don't even let yourself look at non-pet options) and being willing to pay a (sometimes significant) deposit.

Of course I always had an emergency option too - my parents' house.

Now that we own a house, I will say it's much easier. When we went to opt #3, we found we were very popular with the rescues - young, active, no kids, experienced dog handlers (with a 'difficult' breed), homeowners, fenced yards. It was sort of funny, really - we felt like celebrities.

PS: What's the difference between American and English bulldogs? I knew a bulldog once that was a fantastic dog ... Maxine. But I can't remember what type she was.

[Alexa]

PS: What's the difference between American and English bulldogs? I knew a bulldog once that was a fantastic dog ... Maxine. But I can't remember what type she was.

Brit bulldogs are those creatures with wrinkly, smooshed-in faces that sound like Tiffany's (soon to be) Dead Cat when trying to draw breath. American Bulldogs can vary in appearance but you won't mistake one for the Brit kind. The reason they vary is because there were (are?) two main strains of the American breed, and then those 2 strains have also been intermixed. One of the strains (I can't remember the two names) looks pretty much like an AmStaff while the other one seems to have a shorter, smooshier muzzle, BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS SMOOSHY AS THE BRIT THING! Also, the American dogs have longer legs/are taller than the English dogs.

[**Katie+Jim**]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Alexa, your post was very informative and helpful . As far as her breed- I'm not too sure. I looked up the breed standards a bit to see if they seemed to fit her appearance. They do to some degree, though I do think she definitely has some Pitt in her as well. Ill dig up the picture of her that was on the shelter website and upload it in a sec. As far as cats are concerned, I do have a 15 year old cat. She's been around dogs her whole life though, and I know shes fine with them. The layout of our apartment would allow us to put up a gate and have one room be a "cat only room" should that be necessary- which brings me to another point. We do rent, but right now we have a two year lease signed on an apartment that allows pets. And also I'm just an animal person to the core really. I would never relocate without being able to keep my animals. I'm in NYC at this point and there is an abundance of pet-friendly apts around, just gotta search. I would happily live in a slightly lower quality building or place in order to be happy with my animals . My place that I have now is only 5 blocks from a huge off leash park in Brooklyn, as well as about 15 blocks from a park with a fenced dog run. Our schedule works out well for having a dog- I go to work at 8 am, and my boyfriend does at 2:30 pm. I get home at about 6. So the dog would only be truly alone for about 4 hours per day. I really think we have thought this through and we are ready now! And loyal and loving are high on my priority list, so I'm very happy/reassured to hear that they typically possess those characteristics.

If for some reason I don't adopt her, I will certainly contact the some breed rescues and see if they can help. Shes been at the shelter for a month tomorrow, and the NYCACC shelters are pretty bad with putting animals down. Who knows how much time she would have before they throw her back on the euth list. But I'm feeling pretty good about her anyway. Gonna go right after work tomorrow and play with her for awhile. If it seems right ill sign the papers then and i'll be able to bring her home as soon as shes spayed! Oh, and shes two years old. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for- still young and playful, but past the puppy stage.

[**Katie+Jim**]

Here she is. She's actually a bit wider than she looks in this pic- her chest is wider and her legs are apart a bit. I think that might contribute to why they think shes part American Bulldog. Not too sure about the pink thing on her lol. Again, this is her shelter pic for their website.

[Alexa]

Oh gosh, she is GORGEOUS! I can't believe nobody else was interested in her! Did the staff have any info about her interaction with other animals?

Good luck and, if you do decide to bring her home, please keep us updated!

[**Katie+Jim**]

Thanks! I dont have much info yet on how she is with other animals. I know that in the standard behavior test thing she was rated no concern on everything. I think that test includes them watching how she interacts with other dogs. Ill have to ask if they have any info on her with cats when I head over tomorrow. I was surprised that nobody was interested in her too. She is one of the larger dogs there though (at 77 lbs), and I feel like most people go for smaller breeds and/or puppies there.

[Alexa]

Thanks! I dont have much info yet on how she is with other animals. I know that in the standard behavior test thing she was rated no concern on everything. I think that test includes them watching how she interacts with other dogs. Ill have to ask if they have any info on her with cats when I head over tomorrow. I was surprised that nobody was interested in her too. She is one of the larger dogs there though (at 77 lbs), and I feel like most people go for smaller breeds and/or puppies there.

That's 77 pounds of pure lovin' comin' yer way!

And, since this appears to be a Dog Thread, I'd like to take this opportunity to advertise a book I recently read, The Well-Adjusted Dog by Dr. Nicholas H. Dodman who works up at Tufts. I really think it has something for both new (or soon to be new) dog owners as well as you dog experts out there. He seems like a genuinely nice guy (which, I know, is no reason to buy a book) but he also backs up his theories with research and experience. Anyway, I really enjoyed it and liked his perspective on training/living with dogs. It isn't a specific "how to train your dog to fetch your beer" type book, although it does specifically address some behavioral issues and some training methods, but more of an overall theoretical approach to canines/their behavior (including, as I mentioned, some common behavioral issues)/your interactions with dogs.

I am interested in reading his other books and would like to know if anyone else is familiar with Dr. Dodman. He also wrote, among other books, The Dog who Loved Too Much, which some folks on Amazon gave bad reviews to b/c they said all he does is prescribe meds for the dogs he treats. (Many more folks who fancy themselves to be internet book experts gave good feedback and insisted Doc's use of a med was a last ditch effort for dogs with very deep rooted issues [anxiety, for one] and that he treats with meds being a component of an overall behavioral program.) Anyway, I did not get the impression Dodman was an over-prescriber of meds AT ALL from this book of his that I am recommending. I'd welcome feedback from anyone who has read any of his books. Also, if someone has any other recommendations for other dog behavior/canine psychology type books, I'd love to read about them. Thanks!

PS: K&J, I didn't mean to steal or derail your thread! I just thought this might be a nice place to post this since you are getting a new dog and, really, do I need to start a thread on dog books, of all things? It seems like overkill. I still expect to read regular reports here from you on The Adventures of the Pretty Dog in the Pink Hawaiian Lei.

[JuniorJumper]

She is so cute! You have to save her She definitely has Staffie in her. I think this came up before, but I think rescues/shelters make up breeds for their animals starting with the letter A and work their way through the alphabet. For example, my dog is a "Beagle Mix" (ie. pit bull with a sprinkling of other breeds).

I wouldnt worry a ton about apartment living if you have good neighbors. I live in a non-pet friendly complex and Ive had my dog since May. Other people walk their dogs (mostly pits) in the broad daylight without an issue. Plus we avoid a pet fee living in a dog-hating complex!

Good luck, I hope you adopt her!

[horsecrazy3018]

I have an Am. Bulldog that is mixed with pit and boxer, and she is such a sweet dog. She is a bit smaller than your girl (about 55 pounds) and has a little more of a 'bulldog' face, but otherwise they're probably very similar. She is almost 4 and we've had her for almost her entire life. She belonged to a family my brother knew that just didn't have the means to take care of her and a new baby at the same time. My brother adopted her from them and brought her to live with my family. When we got her she had some kind of worms (ewww) and some kind of skin issue (both fully resolved now ) but otherwise she was in good shape and still is.

I don't know too much about any of the breeds, although I do hate the negative connotation a lot of people give to pits. My dog is extremely friendly with people and other dogs - she has never done anything that I would consider to be 'mean'. We also have two cats (we have had them for YEARS) and while they don't like her very much, they all generally get along well. She can be a bit pushy at times, purely because she gets super excited about just about everything, but she listens well and is super loyal and fun

Anyways...I hope everything works out with her, she is adorable and I'm sure she will be a joy to have!

[**Katie+Jim**]

Great news! I ADOPTED HER!!

wheee! excited. lol.

When I went to see her again today I just knew that she was right. Shes such a mush..will literally sit on your feet and rub into your legs for attention. Shes really friendly to everyone who approaches her too which is nice. Plus I found out that she knows "sit" which leads me to hope that she might be housetrained too. She does pull very very hard on the leash, but im sure that can be fixed a bit with some obedience training. She also didnt react very well to the other dogs as we were walking out of the kennel room. But then again most of the dogs lunged at her barking as we passed. She will be an only dog with me, so again ill have some time to work on that. We led her through the cat room to see what she would do. She was excited to see the cats but she didnt try to "get" them. One cat went to attack her and she ran away lol. So I think she should be ok with my cat. Shes staying overnight tonight and being spayed in the morning. I get to pick her up at 5 pm tomorrow! Soo excited.

[JuniorJumper]

Yay this makes me so happy! It's common for dogs in a kennel/shelter environment to seem a little animal aggressive. Once she gets home and settled I wouldnt be surprised if that disappeared. I would also suggest investing in a kennel for her - not only will it help with the house training (keep her in there when she cant be supervised), it will give her a safe place which is really important. Good luck with her, she is very cute & post more pictures of her when you can

[Akasha]

That's great news, congrats!! and she is adorable in that pic!

So they're spaying her this morning and discharging her at 5pm on the same day? It's not ideal (IMO anyway), especially considering she's no longer a puppy, but I can understand these shelters are operating under different set of guidelines due to funds and resources. Anyway, she'll be uncomfortable or possibly sore for a day or two, so let her rest and don't let her get overly active, keep an eye on the sutures (make sure they're clean and do not become infected).

Also, when you first get her home, wait a while before you offer her water, and only give a small amount at a time, same thing when you feed her (due to the surgery, I'd give her something blend and soft...even baby food), this is to reduce the chance of her from throwing up due to the anesthesia from the surgery and the excitement of being in a new place.

[Alexa]

That's great news, congrats!! and she is adorable in that pic!

So they're spaying her this morning and discharging her at 5pm on the same day? It's not ideal (IMO anyway), especially considering she's no longer a puppy, but I can understand these shelters are operating under different set of guidelines due to funds and resources. Anyway, she'll be uncomfortable or possibly sore for a day or two, so let her rest and don't let her get overly active, keep an eye on the sutures (make sure they're clean and do not become infected).

Also, when you first get her home, wait a while before you offer her water, and only give a small amount at a time, same thing when you feed her (due to the surgery, I'd give her something blend and soft...even baby food), this is to reduce the chance of her from throwing up due to the anesthesia from the surgery and the excitement of being in a new place.

Great advice, Akasha. I'd also go really slow and easy with the dog & cat introductions: Especially if dog may be feeling cranky and vulnerable while cat may be feeling his/her space is being invaded.

Post pics and an update ASAP, please!

[**Katie+Jim**]

Thanks!

Yeah I though the same day discharge was kind of strange too. But they insisted that that's how they always do it. She seems pretty comfortable so far. Her incision is pretty small and it looks ok to me at this point. But I will keep an eye on it. Unfortunately we already had a small cat/dog encounter. I put the cat in the bedroom before I left to get the dog with the intention of keeping the cat in there tonight. But when I opened the door to check on her the cat bolted out. Ella (the dog, incase I haven't mentioned her name yet) came face to face with her and they looked at each other and didn't do much. Then Lacey (cat) hissed, and Ella lifted her front leg as if she were going to try to play. Cat took off and Ella tried to run after her. I separated them instantly and cat is back in the bedroom. This all took place over the course of about 8 seconds. Blehh. I was hoping that their first meeting went ok. I guess not all hope is lost though, just really have to keep them separate until the time is right to start introducing them.

[**Katie+Jim**]

This post has been edited by **Katie+Jim**: Jan 4 2010, 07:15 PM

[Akasha]

Aww, she looks so at home already...and you already have a rug that matches her.

Do you plan on getting her a crate?

[**Katie+Jim**]

Aww, she looks so at home already...and you already have a rug that matches her.

Do you plan on getting her a crate?

Haha! I didnt even really think about it, but she does match the rug. I'm considering crating her when I'm not around. I have one that was donated to me for that purpose but its a little too small for her. Do you suggest crating? I personally don't have any experience with it, but when I was younger I remember that my grandma always crated her dog. She was crated at night and when my grandma left the house. Is it possible to crate train an adult dog with no previous crate experience?

[Alexa]

Oh fuck is she cute! You know, I made the same accidental mistake when I introduced the new dog to the cats. Actually, I didn't SEE one of the cats lurking but the doggie did. Well, dog went to investigate, cat ran, dog chased. Who can resist chasing a running cat?? It's so much dang fun! It's the thrill of the chase!! I am going to give you another tidbit of (unrequested) advice.

I really think chasing shit gets harder to manage if they are allowed to develop a pattern of chase/run away. From my exhaustive (and exhausting) research on the subject, plus a few hundred bucks spent on a dog behavior lady, I offer the following suggestions: Do whatever you can to not let a chase start in the first place. Things such as keeping Pretty Dog on a leash while cat comes out on kitty's own accord and then, if dog attempts to be overly looky or give a fucking predator style stare, distract her by giving her a known command (like sit) and give her treats (that you will have in your secret pocket) to distract her from the CAT, who is really, really fun to chase, and to show her that good things happen when kitties come around. Also lavish praise when she attends to you rather than that kitty.

One of my cats was VERY aggressive toward the new dog and it just so happens to be the cat that got chased by her. That cat, FME, has a motto: Fuck with me once, shame on you. Fuck with me twice, well, you ain't gonna get the chance, crackah, because I am gonna kick your fucking ass around the block and back again every time I so much as see your scrawny-busted-up-fake-ass-corgi-wanna-be-looking-self out of the corner of me eye. (Yeah, it's a long motto but it seems to work for her.) Anyway, since this was not a simple introduction any longer, the animal behavior chick said I needed to do something similar to the above mentioned leash introduction or separate them by a baby gate, keeping them very far apart but still able to see one another. You teach them BOTH that good shit happens when the other one is around. Ideally you have two people, one on "cat duty" and one on "dog duty" (Hehe, I said "dog doody"), in theory, each person will maintain the calmness of their assigned animal, with praise and slow, gentle, calming petting action. Also, this lady was big on treats, so she wanted both kitty AND doggy to receive treats during the "interaction." (I spent as much on fucking treats as I did on the house calls the lady insisted on making.) ANyway, the point of the exercise is not forcing them to get closer but really just being within eyeballing distance. That's all you ask for, and keep it short and sweet, the first couple of times. You eventually, gradually increase their proximity - same bullshit with the praise, pettings , and treats, of course - getting them to a point of closeness they can tolerate with out acting the fool.

Again, I know you didn't ask for all this advice: I just feel that I am getting more bang for my buck if I share what the crazy dog behavior lady taught us.

So, I will leave you for now with a big "CONGRATULATIONS" and a request that you continue to update us as your new dog becomes integrated in you household.

PS: I, for one, wouldn't mind looking at a picture of this cat as well.

[Alexa]

Is it possible to crate train an adult dog with no previous crate experience?

Oh. OH! I can tell you what Dr. Dodson says: He says YES YOU CAN! I am going to see if I can scan the pages from his book that covers this topic and then post them...

If I am unable to do that, I bet Akasha has tips for this. (She is my online dog training guru.)

[**Katie+Jim**]

no no! I really appreciate the "unrequested" advice lol. I desperately need advice at this point. This is my first shelter dog as well as my first large breed dog, and I want to do things right now so that we have a happy household established. I read a similar article about the first cat-dog interaction with helpers and stuff. I figure I'll start all that tomorrow or the next day. For now I took a towel and rubbed it on cat and took one and rubbed it on dog, gave it to opposite animals. I put it near their food bowls as recommended in other article to familiarize each with the others scent. I like the idea about letting cat roam free and having dog on leash to correct any problem behavior that might occur. I think I should work on this midday this week as to piss off as few neighbors as possible lol. And I would love any bits about crate training and stuff like that.


Also, here is cat. Her name is Lacey and she is 15. Ive had her since I was 7. Shes just a cranky old cat. She spent 13 of her 15 years with my other dogs, and she was the same with them as she just was with Ella. She tries to be mighty tough cat and stand up to dogs.